Noob questions

Working my way through the campaign on a Wyvern Druid and starting to think about builds more. I had a couple noob questions:

  1. How does a passive like "12% increased lightning damage" sequence with Embitter? For example if I use Embitter on Rend, my extra gained lightning damage is gained as cold damage. Does the 12% increase apply before the conversion to cold (therefore ultimately boosting the cold), or does it apply at the end (and therefore is a 0% increase because there's no lightning damage to increase)?

  2. How should I think about the difference between "gain as extra damage" vs "increased damage"? For simplicity let's say my build is only doing physical damage. In that case would there be any difference between "Gain 10% of Damage as Extra Physical Damage" vs "10% increased physical damage?"

  3. Is there anything special about prioritizing critical damage vs. normal damage? For simplicity let's say I'm an oracle who always crits, and I can choose between +20% crit damage vs. +20% normal damage. Is one better than the other or are they effectively the same?

Sorry if these are dumb questions!

Comments

efirestorm10t5 months ago1

1&2: https://mobalytics.gg/poe-2/guides/damage-defence-calc-order

3: That's a question for path of building. Genuinely you want 100% crit chance when you scale crit. Oracle is a special case here. For more information on how much crit chance/damage is best on Oracle look here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/s/IpLZaG9CbK

Jaszuni5 months ago1
  1. Typically you want to have an even distribution of crit chance and crit bonus. With Oracle you want to prioritize crit bonus. You still need crit chance but not at a 1:1 ratio.
1995TimHortonsEclair5 months ago1

You can think of crit as a multiplicative boost and to decide if it's better to invest in crit, or the base damage being boosted by crit, or a crit bonus.

I like to always dumb things down into easy-to-understand numbers.

100 base damage. 5% chance to crit. Default crit bonus is 100% (double damage).

So you have a 5% chance to do double damage.

You hit 20 times for a (base) total of 2000 damage (100 per hit, 20 times, no bonuses included).

In practice, ~1 in every 20 attacks will do double damage, so you've done the same amount as you would have done in 21 attacks, because 1 of them did double. In this scenario, it is equivalent to getting an affix on your gear or gems that says "do 5% more damage".

So if we tweak it up a bit - what if it's a 10% crit chance, everything else the same?

Now you've hit 20 times, and 2 of them were double damage so a total of 2200 - which is 10% more damage than 2000. When we only change crit chance and we have no bonuses to crit bonus, the crit chance we have can be thought of as a "more" multiplier in sustained fighting scenarios.

Now lets consider a chance to crit bonus. Revisit our initial 2000 damage and base crit chance of 5%. We get 50% increased critical strike bonus, that means when we crit, it does more than double-damage, now it does 250.

So in that scenario where we hit 20 times with 5% chance to crit, we do a total of 2150 damage. This is equivalent to 7.5% more damage, which makes sense --> at 5% crit, no bonus it's 5% more damage, and we increased it 50% to 7.5% more.

Lets consider 10% base crit now, remember it was equivalent to 10% more damage. A 50% increase to 10% more is 15% more. If we revisit the 20 hit scenario, we do a total of 2300 damage, which is 15% more than the base amount of 2000.

So lets imagine you are sitting with 10% chance to crit, and 50% increased crit bonus --> is it better to increase your base damage by 10%, crit chance by 10%, or crit bonus by 10% for the "best" increase to your sustained DPS?

Scenario 1 - base damage increased by 10% (100-->110). Total sustained damage output over 20 hits is 2530 damage.

Scenario 2 - increase critical strike chance by 10% (10%-->11%). Total sustained damage output over 20 hits is 2330.

Scenario 3 - increase critical strike bonus by 10% (150%-->155%). Total sustained damage output over 20 hits is 2310.

So if you're able to get 20 hits out, you're going to see the best result by increasing your base damage by 10%.

In practice in the game, the scenario we've postured isn't necessarily going to represent how your attacks get to play out - people rarely get to sit there and put out 20 attacks in a sustained fashion, unless they have extremely high attack speed (I'm talking 10+ attacks per second).

If you are attacking or casting at a casual speed, you need to consider how many attacks or casts you're willing or able to put out in order to roll a crit and receive that crit bonus - because you can technically get 4 billion crit bonus and see a multi-million DPS number, but if you only realize that bonus once every 20 attacks, and it takes you half a second to attack, you're gonna be doing your base damage on average for 9.5 seconds until you get that bonus-affected attack out, and it will feel terrible to play even though on paper it looks huge.

It means there isn't really a straightforward answer to your question unfortunately, it is heavily reliant on playstyle, other support gems, skill choices, and your base crit, and cast/attack speed.

The way people typically do it is that you focus on normal increases/more multipliers for your damage unless you can get your crit chance to a threshold where within your usual attack timing window (ie. how long you're willing to spend to stand there and attack/cast before needing to dodge or progress) you consistently hit a critical strike. Don't focus on allocating crit bonus until then, otherwise the skill is going to feel clunky and unreliable because you won't be seeing your crit bonus benefits on a consistent basis.

For #1 & 2 - increases are calculated after conversions/gains.

So if you have 10% increased physical damage and gain 10% of damage as extra physical, and you are doing 100 physical, 100 fire, 100 cold, and 100 lightning damage:

  • first you get the gain as extra, so you're doing 400 damage total, and you're gonna get 40 extra as phys. Your new totals are 140 phys, 100 fire, 100 cold, and 100 lightning.
  • you do the increase of 10% increased phys, so your new totals are 154 phys, 100 fire, 100 cold, and 100 lightning for a grand total of 454 damage.
  • if you slapped an embitter gem into your attack, that 40 extra phys gain would be now gained as cold instead, and the increase would not apply, so your totals would be 110 phys, 100 fire, 140 cold, 100 lightning, for a grand total of 450 damage - not too far off, but composed differently.

More like this

I decided to try stacking energy shield - at minimum level.

I decided to try stacking energy shield - at minimum level.

I got bored at this stage in the league and decided to spend many of my hard earned divines on a small project. Wouldn't it be funny to stack Energy shield for a min-level char? [https://poe.ninja/poe2/pob/1a027](https://poe.ninja/poe2/pob/1a027) Tabula rasa has relevant jewel mods noted on it in POB so the math actually works out since it doesn't seem to work properly in POB. second screenshot is with a lvl 29 discipline aura with 36% increased aura magnitude - I didn't wanna spend another several thousand divines on a support character, I just wanted to see how well it would work theoretically >3000 ES without aurabot is possible, however, its basically impossible in practice. As of now, there are \*18\* 2 socket uncorrupted crown of thorns left on trade - on average it takes \~11 to hit a 30% and then another 1 in 3 to get a 3 socket one. Hitting a double corrupt on said 3 socket would be better then my current one, but that's not plausible sadly. Same for the boots. Hitting a better double corrupt on the gloves and focus would likely be plausible, but I couldn't buy more bases from Finn. Grip of Kulemak 59% ES \*should\* be possible, but it already took me over 40 attempts to hit 57% so I think I'll just leave it as is. Belt I didn't find any other way besides the 25% corrupt to get ES without a level requirement - if anyone has any idea tell me. Amulet could sanctify for 19/19 but again, would require silly amounts of currency (each try is \~30 div as is with annoint + sanctify + quality). I \*think\* patient barrier should be best annoint, but correct me if I'm wrong. Total investment into this character so far is about 3000 divines, probably a bit more. further thoughts \- maximum technically possible is 3112 ES at level 2 unless I'm missing something important. POB [https://poe.ninja/poe2/pob/1a02a](https://poe.ninja/poe2/pob/1a02a) \- doubting this but: is it possible to get an ascendency at this low level by skipping straight to geonor with a helper? In which case it might be possible that xp penalties kicking it would allow me to ascend at lvl 2? This would allow +20% +20% (ascendency) +60% (jewel) ES, which would get me to 3218 ES (actual build) / 3732 ES (max technically possible) Did I miss anything?

4 months ago
552
Rakiata who?

Rakiata who?

I made an elemental crossbow varashta sorc this season as my starting build (goal was to exploit yoke of suffering's full potential, you can find poe ninja below, don't be fooled by the dmg tooltip, it kill ubers before they can move) and so since I was in the intel side of the tree I used my weapon swap to maximize exposure (with whispering ice) and curse magnitude. Here with some non-optimized gear I'm reaching a total of -338% res (that's -169% on bosses), meaning it's better than rakiata's. I use cursed ground support to apply the curse and icestorm (which comes with the staff) with prolonged duration and potent exposure to make the exposure last longer. This tech doesn't require much investment apart from your weapon swap and a few sockets at most so it can be plugged into many elemental builds. As it is now, it requires you to cast the spells with your weapon swap, so I use it mostly for bosses, but i might cast icestorm on bulky rares in juiced maps once in a while. If you have a skill dedicated for mapping, it'll propably better to use rakiata on it, and remove it or use another skill for bosses. Here's the poeninja: [https://poe.ninja/poe2/profile/McZaatar-0907/character/Dendjala](https://poe.ninja/poe2/profile/McZaatar-0907/character/Dendjala) I might make a build showcase if people are interested, it's a fun league starter build. With yoke and the electrocution node on the tree, enemies have 120% damage taken, more if they're cursed, on top of the giant res drop, plus you benefit from a lot of the "damage against enemies with ailments nodes" so that's why the tooltip is low (explosive grenades indicate 60k in game but they hit bosses for like 2M) at first I was playing with permafrost bolt with frost nexus + navira's fracture + fragmentation rounds, it was a fun combo and really strong for leveling but I couldn't scale navira's fracture damage in late game (I had command + minion nodes on my second weapon instead of the curse/exposure at the time) Hope this inspires some of you!

4 months ago
3012
“That’s no moon”

“That’s no moon”

The Oracle Death Star is fully operational- only took 30 days of playtime. GGGs https://poe.ninja/poe2/profile/L0L-breh-1628/character/ShapesofWrath

5 months ago
2213